The Times Before the Times of the World

“God has delivered us and called us by His holy calling, not according to our own works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the times of the world(2T 1:9). Again it is confirmed: “Unto the hope of life everlasting, which God, Who lies not, has promised before the times of the world” (Titus 1:2). Notice this ‘purpose, grace and promise,’ it all has a specific meaning!

Four words I wish to clarify before we begin:

Create is to bring into existence: “In the beginning God created heaven, and earth” (Gn 1:1).

Begot is an event which has happened in creation: “Henoch begot Irad, and Irad begot Maviael…” (Gn 4:18).

Beget is to procreate as the father: “And as for Ismael I have also heard thee. Behold, I will bless him, and increase, and multiply him exceedingly: he shall beget twelve chiefs, and I will make him a great nation” (Gn 17:20).

Make to cause to happen or to bring into existence: “God said: Let us make man to our image and likeness” (Gn 1:26).

A question immediately arises: Where was this ‘man’ whom God first mentions in the Bible? Here is the mystery, yet He has given us the answer. We will develop this answer in stages.

The times before the ‘times of the world,’ that is before when in ‘the beginning God created heaven, and earth,’ so much happened, and it is all revealed in Sacred Scripture. Scripture reveals scripture and in His Light we see light. When the Psalmist wrote: “The Lord said to my Lord: Sit Thou at My right hand until I make Thy enemies Thy footstool…from the womb before the day star I begot Thee” (Ps 109:1,3). That is, God the Father said to His Son Jesus Christ that He the Father begot Jesus His Son in the womb before the creation of the times of the world. The womb had to be in existence before the creation of the ‘heaven and the earth.’ (The heaven includes the heavenlies, that is the angels and archangels which includes the ‘day star’). It follows that ‘man’ had to be in existence in the womb in the heart of God the Father of Creation before the times of the world. Why do I say this? Because God said ‘Let us make man…’ This entity, this being, is the answer to so many questions. This womb had to be Mary, for we all know that She conceived of the Holy Ghost and brought forth Jesus Who is the Christ (Lk 2:7).

Begotten Soul

Now we come to the definition of what is this ‘man.’ When it is written: “And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul” (Gn 2:7), it follows that ‘man’ was a ‘begotten soul in the womb, in the heart of God the Father in eternity. This ‘begotten soul’ and all begotten souls in the heart of God the Father in eternity, God called ‘man,’ therefore when God said let us make ‘man’ to Our image and likeness, ‘man’ was already in existence in the womb of Mary, and would now be formed in a new creature.

Living Soul

This man did not become a ‘living soul’ until God gave him a human bodily substance in Adam: “The first man Adam was made into a living soul; the last Adam into a quickening spirit. Yet that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural afterwards that which is spiritual. The first man was of the earth, earthly: the second Man, from Heaven, heavenly(1Co 15:45-47).

Taking this verse in steps we see and understand that the first man was made into a ‘living soul’ contained in a human body.
In our journey through life we the last Adam into a quickening spirit, that is we overcome the allurements of the world and enter into the Divine Nature won for us by Christ Jesus, and given to us through the valid reception of His Body and Blood in Holy Eucharist. By eating and drinking His Body and Blood in Holy Eucharist, Christ Jesus comes to live in us in Eucharistic unity, and we grow more and more into His image and likeness as it is written: “As often as you shall eat this Bread and drink the Chalice, you shall show the death of the Lord, until He come” (1Co 11:26). By following the simple directions of worthily receiving Him in Holy Eucharist, we enter into the promise of the Divine Nature of the ‘heavenly’ man, “this mortal must put on immortality” (1Co 15:53), and this only comes to us in Holy Communion.

Adam was not first a ‘spiritual’ being but a natural human being formed from the slime of the earth, ‘Yet that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural, and then God breathed into his face and Adam became a spiritual being: afterwards that which is spiritual.
When we complete our life on earth (the first man was of the earth, earthly) then we enter into the promise of Jesus Christ and live in our glorified bodies as we see in Jesus: the second Man, from Heaven, heavenly.

This living soul was given a human body to carry it so to speak, as it is written: “And Adam called the name of his wife Eve because she was the mother of all the living” (Gn 3:20). Eve was taken out of Adam as Holy Writ records: “Then the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon Adam and when he was fast asleep, He took one of his ribs, and filled up flesh for it. And the Lord God built the rib which he took from Adam into a woman and brought her to Adam. And Adam said: This now is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man” (Gn 2:21-23). Therefore ‘the womb’ of this Eve, ‘mother of the living’ is secondary to Mary, the ‘womb before the day star,’ because Eve was made from the rib of Adam, the first ‘living soul’ – and was taken from ‘the womb’ of Mary which existed before ‘God created heaven, and earth.

Two Extraordinary Events

The identification of the original womb is the Mother of Jesus Christ the Son of Man. Before God made Eve and placed all the progeny of the sons of man in the womb of her, ‘the mother of all the living’, He withheld two ‘begotten souls.’ That is He withheld Jesus Who is the Messiah, and Mary, She who was to be the Mother of Jesus Christ. This had to be, as there was an earthly order in creation, so too there was a Heavenly order. This Heavenly order had a Mother in whose womb existed all ‘begotten souls’ which later in eternitygiven earthly bodies and became ‘living souls’ as we have seen. For those souls who follow God’s Law there will be a return to our Heavenly state of immaculate perfection in our Heavenly Mother: “How long wilt thou be dissolute in deliciousness, O wandering daughter? For the Lord has created a new thing upon the earth: A Woman shall compass a Man(Jr 31:22). We all must be born again and return to our Mother Mary, the Mother of Creation and be encompassed in Her immaculate womb: “For as the woman is of the man, so also is the man by the woman, but all things of God” (1Co 11:12). Everything is done in God’s Divine Order.

The First Extraordinary

Event Mary was and is sinless confirmed in scripture as her Son was He “Who knew no sin” (2Co 5:21). Therefore Mary was conceived without sin. At the appropriate time in the genealogy of the Levitical Priesthood, the seed of Mary was placed in the womb of her earthly mother Anna. The last Patriarch Joseph, became the ‘just’ spouse (Mt 1:19), of Immaculate Mary, to whom was entrusted the Son of God, Jesus the Christ.

The Second Extraordinary Event

The Archangel Gabriel said: “Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God. Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb and shalt bring forth a Son and thou shalt call His Name Jesus” (Lk 1:30,31). How did Holy Saint Joseph respond? “But while he thought on these things, behold the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a Son and thou shalt call His Name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins. Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying: Behold a virgin shall be with Child, and bring forth a Son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. And he knew her not till she brought forth her First born Son, and he called His name Jesus” (Mt 1:20-25).

Some commentators take this verse ‘he knew her not…’ as meaning that Saint Joseph had intercourse with Mary and had other children by her. This is simply not so. The word ‘till’ was a manner of speaking at that time in the Middle East, and is grossly misunderstood by Protestants. They take the verses from Saints Matthew and Saint Mark as their support for their argument: “Is not this the carpenter’s Son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude” (Mt 13:35). Again: “Is not this the carpenter, the Son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joseph, and Jude, and Simon? Are not also His sisters here with us?” (Mk 6:3).

In the verse quoted previously in this document, God said to His Divine Son: ‘Sit Thou at My right hand until I make Thy enemies Thy footstool.’ By heretics interpretation do they really mean that Jesus shall sit no longer after His enemies are defeated? They speak rubbish! Scripture reveals scripture: “Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James: to them that are beloved in God the Father and preserved in Jesus Christ and called” (Jude 1:1). Why would Jude not call Jesus his Brother if in fact Jesus was His brother? He says he is His servant! If Jesus had sisters, then why did Mary’s mother Anna call two daughters ‘Mary’? “Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, His mother and His mother’s sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen” (Jn 19:25). Don’t you see how erroneous those Protestants are? Let us move on.

When it is said that ‘he knew her not till she brought forth her First born Son’ it simply means that God intends the ‘living soul man’ to return to Him through the same way that He created us in the womb before the daystar as stated above! That is, we must be born again in the Immaculate Womb which conceived Jesus the Son of Man in eternity, before the times of the world. Mary conceived in her immaculate virgin womb Jesus the Son of Man, and all of humanity including Eve and Adam, before the creation of the world. Jesus Christ, God, was subject to Mary and obeyed her request, as we see at the miracle at Cana, how the stewards came to Mary for help and not to Jesus, and how Jesus obeyed His Mother (Jn 2:4,5), obedience – the Son for His Mother!

Let us take another event and look at the conversation of Jesus with Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: “Jesus said to him: ‘Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.’ Nicodemus saith to Him: How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born again? Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh: and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Wonder not that I said to thee: You must be born again. The Spirit breaths where He will and thou hear His voice but thou know not whence He comes and whither He goes. So is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said to Him: How can these things be done? Jesus answered: “…no man hath ascended into Heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in Heaven” (Jn 3:3-9,13).

Who is this Son of man? (Jn 12:34). Notice that Jesus never commented directly when Nicodemus asked can man enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born again! He answered in the order in which the ‘living soul’ man came into existence from the ‘begotten soul’ in eternity: ‘ Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Wonder not that I said to thee: You must be born again. The Spirit breaths where He will and thou hear His voice but thou know not whence He comes and whither He goes. So is every one that is born of the Spirit.’ Nicodemus did not confess Him because he loved the glory of men rather than the glory of God (Jn 12:43), yet he corrected this when he stood firm for Jesus at the Cross and carried His Body to the tomb.

Consider the two events of Mary and Jesus:

1). Mary became subject to fallen man – Eve – yet remained obedient to Almighty God by being obedient to her earthly parents and her earthly spouse, and she herself knew no sin.

2). Jesus the Christ became obedient to earthly man – Joseph and Mary – yet remained obedient to Almighty God: Jesus “went down with them and came to Nazareth and was subject to them…And Jesus advanced in wisdom and age and grace with God and men” (Lk 2:51,52).

Did Jesus Christ exist before the making of Adam? Of course He did! It is written: “Jesus said: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM” (Jn 8:58).

Since God has delivered us and called us by His holy calling, according to His own purpose and Grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the times of the world, unto the hope of Life Everlasting before the times of the world, then Saint Paul was given the insight of who we were and how we existed in the Heart of God the Father in eternity, then we must know that we have been instructed in earthly living while we were yet ‘begotten souls’ in the womb of Mary as stated above: ‘For as the woman is of the man, so also is the man by the woman, but all things of God.’

In conclusion, Eve the ‘mother of all the living’ was begotten in the womb of Mary ‘the mother of creation,’ in the Heart of God the Father, in eternity. Mary was the First ‘begotten soul,’ and Eve the first ‘living soul’ and she came from Mother Mary’s womb. Mary is the first ‘man’ from whose womb in eternity we were all begotten.

Forget not that Jesus is the Savior of mankind, the savior of creation: “Let Thy hand be upon the Man of Thy right hand and upon the Son of Man Whom Thou hast confirmed for Thyself” (Ps 79:18). Wise men today still find Jesus through Mary: “And entering into the house, they found the Child with Mary His mother” (Mt 2:11).

What happened before the beginning of the world?

What was God doing before ‘the beginning’ when He created? Jesus said: “Father…Thou hast loved Me before the creation of the world” (Jn 17:24). Why does Saint Peter speak of this same Jesus Christ as “foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world…”? (1P 1:20). How was He ‘foreknown’? Why does Saint Paul speak of promises given to us “before the times of the world”? (2T 1:9; Tt 1:2). What were the promises?

If we start with the first words given to us in Holy Scripture, we will begin to see the intention and the plan of our Creator: “In the beginning God created heaven and earth, and the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God moved over the waters” (Gn 1:1,2).

When God created ‘heaven’ He also created the ‘heavenlies’ that is He created the angels. But before this He created ‘man’ in His Heart, in eternity, as recorded: “The Lord (God the Father) said to my Lord (Jesus Christ) …from the womb (Mary, Mother of Jesus Christ) before the day star (the fallen angel Lucifer) I begot Thee” (Ps 109:1,3). It is here that we see as we look at ‘eternity’ before He created ‘heaven and earth’ we can understand that quite a lot happened in the eternal plan of God before the ‘beginning.’ “The Lord possessed me in the beginning of His ways, before He made any thing from the beginning” (Pr 8:22).

Almighty God, the Creator of heaven, heavenlies, and earth, created man in His heart in eternity. This first ‘man’ in His heart was Mary, the Mother of the Son of Man. The Son of Man (Jesus) was begot in her immaculate heart before the angels: “And thou Bethlehem Ephrata, art a little one among the thousands of Juda, out of thee shall He come forth unto Me that is to be the ruler in Israel, and His going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity” (Mi 5:2). That is from the days of eternity before the beginning of creation.

It is in the immaculate womb of Mary that all of mankind was conceived in the heart of God the Father, in eternity. “For as the woman is of the man, so also is the man by the woman, but all things of God” (1Co 11:12). This conception of ‘all’ was every human being from Adam and Eve and all their generations down to this present day and those who come after us. This is why we call Mary, the Mother of Creation, and Eve “the mother of all the living(Gn 3:20). Mary by this definition would be the mother of Eve and Adam. In time, God would place the seed of Mary into the womb of Anna, wife of Joachim, and then Holy Mary would bring forth from her immaculate womb, Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the world.

God had very special and glorious plans for us: “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and immaculate in His sight in charity” (Ep 1:4). It was after we were conceived in His heart that God created the angels on ‘day one’ of creation. It must be understood that the angels did not know what was in the heart of God the Father when they were first created. God divided the angels them into nine different choirs: Angels (Mt 26:53); Archangels (Tb 12:15; Jude 1:9); Cherubim (Gn 3:24); Seraphim (Is 6:1-3); Thrones (Ps 44:7); Virtues (Ep 1:21); Princes (Col 1:16); Dominations (Col 1:16); Powers (Col 1:16).

God assigned duties to all His heavenlies into three major areas; God’s heavenly court, the cosmos and the earth. It is after they were created and assigned responsibilities that God announced that He was going to make a creature called ‘man’ less than the angels, and that the angels would assist man to come to spiritual perfection in God. Here is when Lucifer revolted and declared that he would not serve man, but demanded that man would serve him. There was war in Heaven and Lucifer who was now called Satan and the Devil, was cast out of Heaven and his place was found no more therein (Apoc 12:7,8).

After Lucifer and his rebellious angels were kicked out of Heaven, God assigned angels to guard and assist man the moment that man was conceived in the womb of his earthly mother. These ‘guardian angels’ were ‘specialized’ in the various skills, traits and vocations of their charges. Consequently, every human when born was ‘protected’ and ‘counseled’ by his own individual angel who is equipped to assist man accomplish his function in life, and when life was over to gain re-entry back into the glorious heavenly bliss from whence he came in the first place.

During the time of ‘man’ being in the heart of God the Father in eternity, and before he was conceived in the womb, each individual man (male and female) was instructed by God on heavenly and earthly life. This is why we sometimes say that we know something which we had never heard of before, because God did not send us into the world without having given us enlightments ‘before the foundation of the world,’ and before being sent to earth where the adversary the devil was waiting to destroy man. Isaiah records: “Remember the former age, for I am God, and there is no god beside, neither is there the like to Me, Who show from the beginning the things that shall be at last, and from ancient times the things that as yet are not done…” (Is 46:9,10). ‘The things that are yet not done’ are those things which are necessary for mortal man to take back all the kingdoms of the world which the devil stole from Adam (Lk 4:6). Jesus said: “Come, ye blessed of My Father, possess you the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world” (Mt 25:34).

The inspiration or enlightenment was given to us by God before the first day of creation. It was on the first day that God separated ‘light’ from ‘darkness,’ that is good from evil: “God said: Be light made. And light was made. And God saw the light that it was good; and He divided the light from the darkness. And He called the light Day, and the darkness Night; and there was evening and morning one day” (Gn 1:3-5). Jesus said: “Yet a little while, the light is among you, walk whilst you have the light, and the darkness overtake you not. And he that walks in darkness knows not whither be goes” (Jn 12:35).

In order to explain my point further about our bring instructed in eternity in the heart of the Father, let us examine Genesis a little further: “And God said: Let there be lights made in the firmament of heaven, to divide the day and the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years to shine in the firmament of heaven, and to give light upon the earth, and it was so done. And God made two great lights, a greater light to rule the day; and a lesser light to rule the night, and the stars. And He set them in the firmament of heaven to shine upon the earth, and to rule the day and the night, and to divide the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good. And the evening and morning were the fourth day(Gn 1:14-19). On the first day God created light, which moved from east to west, by its rising and setting, and there was evening and morning one day – the first day. But on the fourth day He made two great lights, a greater light (the sun) to rule the day; and a lesser light (the moon) to rule the night.

Since Solomon says:“What is it that has been? the same thing that shall be. What is it that has been done? the same that shall be done. Nothing under the sun is new, neither is any man able to say: Behold this is new, for it has already gone before in the ages that were before us” (Ec 1:9,10). Since there is ‘nothing new under the sun’, then what happened before the creation of the sun? There is nothing new under the sun because we were given everything in the heart of the Father in eternity! “By faith we understand that the world was framed by the word of God, that from invisible things visible things might be made” (Hb 11:3). Speaking of these hidden things in eternity, Jesus quoted Isaiah: “I will open My mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden from the foundation of the world” (Mt 13:35). If ‘things were hidden from the foundation of the world,’ then those things had to be given to us in eternity before the sun and the moon and stars, that is before creation in the beginning.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word” (Jn 1:1). It is stated in some bible translations that ‘the Word was God.’ Such a statement is not informed by knowledge. God is everything that is good. His Word is good, because God is the Word, and His word creates. To refute this or degrade the word in any way is to become and enemy to God. All things were created by His Word, and we rejoice with the Psalmist in saying: “Praise ye the Lord…for He spoke, and they were made, He commanded, and they were created. He has established them for ever, and for ages of ages. He has made a decree, and it shall not pass away” (Ps 148:1-5).

We had a full ‘life’ before the creation of the world, where God prepared us for ‘mortal life’ before He sent us to earth. In this confidence and certitude “Let us be glad and rejoice and give glory to Him” (Apoc 19:7).